Written by Ricky - 8/20/00

There are only two types of Christians in my book, followers, and sales people.  don get me wrong though...there are different levels between (not part of my point though). ...a quote from your page..."One simple look at what He did and what He taught quickly wipes away this notion.  Namely, Jesus claimed to actually be God.... Now can a very "good and wise man" make this claim and still be "very good and wise"??  One who makes this kind of incredible statement must be 1.) a Liar, 2.) a Lunatic (crazy), or 3.) He is who He says He is."

this statement makes every word that you have preached in this site contradicted.  maybe that was the power of your christ.  not a god, not god's son, but a wise, regular man who was a bit too sure of himself in a time where people where ready to believe anything.

by the words of your web site i have come to the conclusion that you are a sales person for christianity.

Take away the possibility of heaven and the large bank account that the christian establishment is holding and see how loyal your sheep will be. 

your religion is in a down fall among our educated society...i guess you had better lower teachers wages so they do an even worse job than they are already doing now.  this way you can hold onto your ignorant flock of sheep for a few more decades.

visit my message board to help convert my readers.

http://www.dreamwater.com/lumbermans/wwwboard/index.html

or visit my site and link through to the message board

http://www.trax.to/ricky

take care,

ricky

ps. keep a close eye on anti-christian sites...for they are a big part of

the fall of christianity and its income

Written by Derek (webmaster) - 8/20/00

Written by Ricky - 8/20/00

i appreciate your Quick Response to my email. you are very right, i am making an accusation from your web site and the information on it. are you saying though, that most of the info on your site is believed to be true in your mind?  i guess the only accusation i have made, is towards your belief..that is what your web site is about?  so i guess i can make the assumption that what is on the site is your belief, and if that being true i can feel pretty confident that any disagreements with your web site views are in fact your personal views.

you have to understand, 90% of the people that have "done me wrong have been part of the christian belief system.  we live under a government that has been ran from a christian view point since it's start. this means christians take a solid blame for many historical wrongs.  for example, slavery of the african people. white, rich, CHRISTIAN government and people proudly held slaves under the words of the bible.  i have read and studied writings from slaves who wrote of the slave owners explaining that 'black slaves where playing their role in history, and that this is what "GOD" wanted for them'. how nice of those christian slave owners to help "god" and africans out.

i agree, from reading the bible and other text on Jesus, he seemed to be a pretty decent man.  but you must know, jesus died in front of about 10 people who didnt really know who he was (passer by's to view a random death). the jews did not crucify jesus...the romans did(we know this because the romans were the only ones at the time to crusify by cross).  jesus was a common man making a political movement much like john lennon and the 60's movement. jesus had his heart in the right place, but after his death..politicians saw an opportunity to build off of the ideas of jesus....and created the bible. you see mr dalton, the bible is a great novel...perhaps the most read (or claimed to be read) novel in history. but it is by far a book from our creator (if any).  christians have taken it upon themselves to hold the arrogance of saying " our god is THE god".

with a good sales pitch you have made it work for a long time, but all good things must come to an end. if in fact the god you speak of does exist...he/she has spoken to my heart already and warned me of the mis-writings of the bible...and warned me of website, 100,000 dollar church creating christians claiming to spread the word of the lord with power on their mind. i hope thats not you.

take care,

ps. i disagree, i think the readers on my message board would be respectful of your views and truly appreciate any ideas you could share with them.

Written by Ricky - 8/20/00

(Rick sent a copy of the same e-mail above to me the following day with the subject line reading Re: I hope our conversation isn't over)

Written by Derek (webmaster) - 8/21/00

Written by Ricky - 8/22/00

please don be coy with me mr. dalton. i think the subject and purpose of the conversation is obvious.  i sent you a starting email to which you sent a reply stating that i was making an assumption about you from the information on your web site.  i have sent a reply to that email and you now have sent this beat around the bush reply.  why, i ask?  i will put out another copy of my retort to your last email:

(Ricky then included another copy of the same e-mail above (Quick response 8/20/00) to me then added this ending...)

you have a web site claiming to understand the misinterpretations of other philosophies besides christianity .  this is my opinion to that...are you now speechless?  that is fine, my point is made then.

Written by Derek (webmaster) - 8/22/00

Written by Ricky - 8/22/00

facts of history may be a negative subject, but please dont let that reflect on me in your opinion.  i am not angry at all. i was getting under your skin because i was making true statements about christianity and slavery(i guess the assumption was that you are a christian so you must feel what your government did was forgiven by the lord.) how easy for you....huh? i am telling you what more and more people are coming to realize about your religion. you do have a site pushing beliefs of christianity...right?  i guess i am a sales person of nonreligious views since i have a site pushing beliefs of nonreligious views.  two sales people for two separate philosophies.  only difference?  my philosophy cant afford billboards with catchy quotes from the bible and commercial air time.

about me accusing you of being coy... i gave you a plea not to be coy with me ( "please don be coy with me") is what i said. i am not quite sure what a "pissing match" is, but i will assume it is fighting.  as far as smashing my views in your face...its not a very good feeling to have some ones views passive aggressively preached to you...is it?  no.  signs, people, and politicians push your religion down peoples throats every day. seem to preach the good they do, but forget the sniper attacks that they attempted on an entire race(slavery). you picked the religion, so i again can assume that you float in all of its actions and beliefs.

as far as me being the first approach...someone had to knock on the door...i guess it was me.  my true purpose you ask?  in all honesty, i made more statements than i asked questions.  although, i got the feeling you were playing with me...feeling me out for the best angle.  so there you have it.  something strange though.  i sent you e-mails 3 different times, and you replied to each one. i get the feeling you enjoy playing games.  you did reply, if you felt i was being attacking...why did you reply?  sounds fishy to me.

in regards to your statement about posting our conversation...i have had our conversation posted since the first response from you.  mr. dalton, i hope this is not a big game to you.  my last email was and is a very serious subject in history. an entire race is still feeling the back lash from the torture dealt out to them by a religion, the christian religion.

take care,

(I wrote nothing further, because I felt that Ricky was wanting to do nothing but argue in a rather negative and mean spirited manner and that he was not at all really interested in sincerely examining the case for Christ... which is perfectly fine... everyone is free to make their choice.  Several months later however, I received a newsletter from Ricky.  A newsletter that I had not asked for, nor was interested in.  I then wrote this letter to him...)

Written by Derek (webmaster) - 1/4/01

(Since his web site address was included in his newsletter, I decided to go check his site out again (curiosity).  I came across the section where he placed all our correspondence letters.  Also written there was this comment:  "Below are some email transcripts between myself(Richard Davis) and Derek R. Dalton. Mr. Dalton has a site which explains the mis-understandings of people who disagree with the Christian beliefs of the bible"   At the bottom of the page he writes this:  "If you feel that you can add any substance to this conversation, please feel free to visit MR. Dalton's website and email him. It is a shame he can't get the heart and courage to visit the message board to have a conversation, but you know how "they" can be."  Notice how Mr. dalton is getting heated....I bet the LORD wouldn't be pleased to see and hear Mr. dalton right now.  I decided to visit his message board and left the following message:

Hello Ricky;
After receiving your newsletter (which by the way, I hope you got my email requesting to be taken off your newsletter mailing list - no offense, I'm just not real interested in it at this time) I thought I'd come visit your web site again... My, you do have alot of things to check out... you must be pretty good at web designing... I thought the "machine looking page" with your names rolling up was pretty cool.
Anyways, while looking around I came across your section where you have our email correspondences down.  While I don't mind you doing so and giving my address and web site out, (in fact, in one of my emails to you I suggested we both do so... only you never gave me permission to do so, so I haven't yet.  Is is Okay??) I would ask that you make sure to include everything that was actually written in the letters.
Example: I noticed that in copying your very first letter to me you failed to include the last statement you wrote to me... "visit my message board to help convert my readers." which is why I kinda tongue in cheek responded the way I did in my following letter.  I have not to this point entered your message forum, not from fear, but rather from my sense that you are not really interested in hearing my thoughts, but rather to attack me and make fun of what I believe.  I have not done so to you and will not do so.  However, if, as I offered in my emails, either you or someone on your message board would really like to talk with me for the purpose of understanding where I, as a Christian believer, am coming from, then I would be happy to respond as best as I could.

Also, I found it interesting in your final commentary that I seemed to be getting "heated" and that somehow that would make my Lord displeased.  I don't believe I was feeling as "heated" as you may be trying to lead readers to believe.  As I said in my letter, it seems to be you whose emails seem to be seething with anger and bitterness.  In either case, even if I was feeling heated, that would not necessarily "displease God".  Remember, Scriptures tell us that God loves us in spite of our flaws.

Hello to everyone else that seems to "hang out" at this message board. Hope all will have a great 2001!

Reply by Ricky - 1/5/00

Well Hello Derek.  I am glad that you finally worked up the need to visit this message board.  I did get your e-mail to take you off of my mailing list, if in fact I had a mailing list, you will be the first to be taken off.  In your E-mail reguarding God's Mess, you said that you were not interested at this time, but came right into this message board a day later. Interested? Not you...No way.  I appreciate your curiosity.

Actually Derek, I don't believe I need your permission to post any e-mail conversations between us.  You seem to be acting like you didn't want me to post them. what is it...Post the e-mail conversations or not?  Are you looking to make a point? saying you did give me permission but I never responded to let you know...What are you getting at?

As for me not posting a statement I am not even sure was written to you, get over it.  I am not going to argue with you about e-mail postings, as petty as I may be.

I thought you were out to spread the word of Jesus, not save face on a message board. Besides, did you notice the counter on the e-mail conversations page?  Not a big deal around here.. No one gives a shit about some tiny lifeless conversation with a half passed Christian and his dark ways.

As for your fear of posting on this board, you set up your own personality in any situation.  If you come in acting like a dink, you are likely to be treated that way.  Relax Derek, life isn't as hard as you seem to make it... No one is going to make fun of what you believe or attack you.  Unless that is what you are looking for.  Already by the context of your message board post you seem to want something.  I don't get the feeling you are looking for a positive response Mr Dalton.

The people on this board question beliefs of each other Mr dalton.  If you think you are going to come in here with your Christian Jedi mind tricks, these people are far too smart for you.  If you come in here and treat everyone like listeners, you will be criticized, I promise.
So, if you break these codes(which you are more than welcome to) the people in here will judge you right back.

As for me leading the readers, the e-mail's that I posted were word for word(besides your acusation of ONE thing left out).  You responded to what I wrote directly to you Mr. Dalton.  Don't forget that.  If you cannot control your temper, well...In your words, I am not the judge.  God is your true judge...Right?  Have a good day and stay positive Mr. Dalton, it's much nicer to be.

Take care,

Ricky

I have not written any kind of response because I don't feel led to.  What do you readers think?  Leave your opinions in the discussion forum out front.  Thanks.