Hi Greg;

Thought I'd just respond right along side your e mail.  Your previous letter will be in black and my response to each will be in blue.  O.K?

Greetings Derek, 
...Let's see now, about the scientists who may or may not be atheists.....I would agree with you that there are probably certain circles in the scientific community in which an atheist would be respected more than a theist.   You know as well as I do the "fundamentalist Christian" (believers that fully believe the Bible as literal truth) are a small minority in the "scientific community".  However, what these individuals divulge to each other and to the public might not be consistent.  Your just speculating here.  Have I not made an adequate case???  In other words, even if they are atheists they might be afraid to admit it publicly. This is not logical, as I have already pointed out... if anything, they would be more afraid to share their Christian faith publicly, since most scientist scoff at us.  Is that deceptive? Of course it is, but they might have a lot to lose after all. Most scientists work for large corporations or for universities...both of which are likely to be owned or controlled by people who are religious and don't like to see anyone in their ranks proclaiming their disbelief.  Your basing your belief on an assumption, and not very good ones at that.  Do you have any facts to back it up?  You and I both know how difficult it would be for a known atheist to open a local business and be successful.... especially if he had a competitor who was say, a deacon.  Of course we are both only speculating about this matter, No I am not speculating... I have already given you accurate, factual evidence.  Have you?   but you have to realize that not all scientists are as brave and tenured as the late Carl Sagan was.

About disciples dying for Jesus, I would like to know more about just how many of the 12 disciples gave their lives for Jesus, can you inform me of their fate?

	Peter - crucified upside down
	John - died on the island of Patmos (prison island)
	James (elder son of Zebedee) - beheaded
	Andrew - crucified
	Philip - hanged against a pillar at Heropolis Thomas - run through the body with a lance
	Bartholomew - flayed alive
	Matthew - a martyrs death (but I couldn't find out how specifically)
	James - I don't know
	Simon - crucified
	Thaddeus - shot to death with arrows
	Stephen - Stoned to death
	Paul - beheaded
	James (Jesus's brother) - thrown from the pinnacle of the Temple, then beaten to death

However, because a person believes in something strong enough to die for the cause does not automatically mean that his beliefs or the cause he gave his life for has any validity or truth. You and I both know that there are dozens of organized religions in this world that worship many different Gods....and many of these people who have a different religion than the one you and I were taught to believe in would gladly give their lives for their God....it happens almost every day in the Middle East. Here is the MAJOR distinction between the disciples being willing to give up their lives vs. any other person "dying for their beliefs": Muslims and Mormons and follower's of David Koresh might be willing to die for their belief that God revealed Himself to their respective leaders, but this revelation was NOT done in a publicly observable way. So they could be wrong about it.  They may sincerely think it's true, but they can't know for a fact, because they didn't witness it themselves personally.  However, the apostles were willing to die for something they HAD witnessed personally.  They were in the unique position not to just believe Jesus existed, performed miracles, and rose from the dead, but rather they were in the position to KNOW FOR SURE!  They KNEW whether what they said they saw was either a lie or truth. People will die for their religious beliefs if they sincerely believe they're true, but people WILL NOT die for their religious beliefs if they know their beliefs are false... unless, as in the case of all other "religions" mentioned above, there was also the chance of physical reward (ie. land, wealth, power, etc).   The 12 disciples had absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose.  Would they have really done that for a lie?  NO WAY!  They claimed that they saw him, talked with him, and ate with him even after He died.  The only logical way to explain why they were willing to do give up their lives for this, must be because it was true! Can you name even one other person or religion that is based directly on many other people directly witnessing the event so at to corroborate the truthfulness and accuracy of the story?(where their is absolutely no physical reward to be gained by doing so)

Your explanation of Jesus' statements about what the faithful can do was pretty reasonable....except that Jesus didn't say that those "gifts" would be given to only a few followers...but he said that they would "follow them that believe"....to me, Derek, this simply means that all believers should possess these powers or abilities.  I'm sorry, Greg but you are mistaken. As in other places in Scripture, Jesus is basically saying "If you believe in me, that I am God, that I truly can and WILL answer ALL your requests, according to My will, you will have it".  It's one thing to believe, but faith "beyond a shadow of doubt" is quite rare and special.  Especially in these days, as I have said, where we, the Body, are for the most part very weak, when compared to the people of the Early Church.  Therefore, I find them not only to be ridiculous and impossible but also a false promise.  If I was a Christian, I would expect those gifts because Jesus says in plain talk that if you believe then you shall be able to do those things.  Greg, if you were a Christian (a TRUE believer in the Lord Jesus), you would better understand not only that scripture verse, but also the entire Bible, for the Holy Spirit that would be dwelling in you, like it is in me and all other true believers, would reveal the meaning to you.  But as such, the Scriptures make no sense to you.  God designed the Bible to be read by any and everyone, but ONLY UNDERSTOOD by HIS PEOPLE, through the Holy Spirit.  I remember reading the Bible and feeling very much like you do.  I first had to not only "open my mind", but more importantly, "open my heart", before I could understand.  I guess it comes down to: Man's way - "Understand first, then believe" vs. God's way - "Believe first, then understand".  I am sorry to say this, but it is true.... your heart seems very hardened.  I guess I'm expecting too much honesty out of the Lord, huh? No, God is perfectly honest... your heart and mind is just to hardened to hearing the honesty.  For me, there are too many strings attached.   You see, he didn't say that it was a matter of faith...he simply said "those who believe" throughout Scripture, they are interchangeable....to me, you either believe or you don't. When I was a believer, I was a total believer, I would very much like to hear about you when you were a believer... would you mind sharing that with me? when I became a doubter, I doubted all. Please read Mat. 13:1-9. I would like to hear from you if you understand the parable.

About whether Jesus existed, The references you listed are very interesting, I wonder if they are truly objective sources of historical fact, Of course they are historical fact... the ancient manuscripts are currently preserved in various museums!  Why is this so hard for you to accept???  or if perhaps they are the writing of persons who were sympathetic to the Christian movement Greg!, the sources I gave you WERE CRITICS of the Christian movement!! ....or perhaps their writing were altered during the middle ages when the Catholic church basically controlled all books and knowledge.  The manuscripts we possess, that I was referring to are dated before the Catholic Church even came into existence! (I even told you that they were all 1st Century!)

I certainly cannot prove that a person named Jesus of Nazareth never lived, Greg, can you give me even one REASONABLE and LOGICAL proof (it doesn't even need to be fact, just logical!!) to hold to the view that Jesus never existed???  So, far I've given you several, but you've given me none.  but I'm still not convinced that he did live...but either way, whether Jesus did or did not live is too much of a pivotal point to simply not commit one way or the other and then want to move on. Either He did or He didn't.  I've given you more that ample evidence that he did.  You have given me none that He didn't.  I still can't make myself believe No one can make oneself believe in it.  Only God, through His Holy Spirit can reveal it to us.  in all the supernatural nonsense in the Holy Bible.  I know, and I understand, Greg.  It can be hard for me even at times.  But, as I said, God made the Bible for His people to understand and believe.

By the way, I've been getting a lot of email lately about our website. Although you are my favorite Christian penpal, I have been trying to answer the other letters, but I find it to very time-consuming.  In the future, I'm going to abbreviate my responses to the average letters and include all respondants in the list of recipients of the "Bible Riddle of the week" emailing.  As I said, Greg, I'm not interested in answering your "riddles", for I know that the entire Bible is a riddle to those who have not accepted the Lord into their heart.  I am only willing to help you clear up some of your misconceptions that are holding you back from understanding and accepting the Truth.  And you have to be wanting to "be cleared up" like you said in your very first e mail "I want to believe".  Do you?  Really?? It is not always seeming like that to me.  However, our dialogue can continue as long as you like.  I may send you the riddle of the week, but I promise not to include you in any more skirmishes.

What's my newest question? Oh yea, about the Who Made God riddle, it's a good one you have to admit.... No, I don't admit to any such thing.  Didn't you even really read and contemplate on my response to that question??  If you had, don't you recall I specifically said : "It is also important to remember that it is impossible for anything within the confines of time and space to even begin to comprehend that which is outside of time and space" and therefore, "man can never really fully understand God".  So, the only deepest question man can really begin with is "who or what made matter/the universe?" since that is the first thing in time and space." since the creationists are always asking if a fine watch or car or human body could just occur...without design?...and I ask them : could God just occur ...without a designer or a builder?...since God is much more complex than a watch, car, or anything we know of , right?  I believe I gave you a very good explanation to that in my previous response.  The universe always existing defies the physical laws of science so therefore is very illogical.  Whereas God always existing is perfectly logical since He is outside of Time and Space and therefore not bound to physical laws.  Didn't you even contemplate on this??  After all, it was YOUR riddle.  It seems to me that you merely want to ask the "riddles", not necessarily seek out the answer.  You see, I'm not trying to determine how the universe began, I'm simply pointing out the fallacy in their argument...that things don't have to have a designer.  You've pointed out no such thing.  If they do, then God is included.  No He isn't, as I've said before, as He is beyond time and space and therefore not bound by the physical laws of nature.

Anyway, here's my new question:

Why do you think the God of the Old Testament was so evil (he admits to doing evil), bloodthirsty, and barbaric....and in the New Testament, Jesus is tolerant of many things that the OT God would kill over?  You must read the Bible as a whole in order to really have a more complete understanding of the character of God.  God is a loving and merciful God.  But He is also a just God, a jealous God.  God hates sin.  The wages of sin is death.  During the Old Testament times God revealed Himself to His children (the Jews) through the laws passed on to Moses. They were to live in strict accordance with the law (obedience) for if they sin they would die.  However, no one could obey the law perfectly, so in order to pay for the price of sin (death), God gave the Jews the law of sacrifice, which was to take a perfect and unblemished animal out of the herd, usually sheep since that was most common, and they would slaughter the animal, it's blood atoning for the sin of the entire tribe. That is why the Jews had so many ritual sacrifices.  However, just as it says in John 3:16, God so loved the whole world, not only Jews (which were already His children, but also the gentiles (all other people not Jews) that God decided He would provide for a sacrifice for all people, once and for all.  A perfect and unblemished sacrifice.... His own Son, Jesus, so that whoever believes in Him, shall be atoned for by His blood, and therefore be saved.  God, came into the flesh, as Jesus, giving us mercy and grace.  This time of mercy and grace will last until "the times of the gentiles is filled" (see Romans 11:25).  The time of mercy and grace will be over and Jesus will return to claim what is His, establish His kingdom on earth and will carry out the sentence for sin - DEATH! All who had received Him as Lord will be atoned for (Jesus paid there sentence) but all who rejected Him will need to atone for themselves (their own blood, since they rejected Jesus's).  You see, Greg, God is a very loving God (New Testament), but He is also a very just and jealous God (Old Testament).  I think you know what I'm talking about, but I can provide many examples if you like...or read Randy's article in My Case Against Christianity titled "The Truth About the Bible"....there are many scripture that reveal the vile nature of the OT God.....he commands his people to kill innocent women and children, none are innocent all have sinned (See Romans 3:23).  Also remember that God was punishing an entire Nation that was steeped in sin, rebellion and immorality. to take the young female virgins as their sex slaves, You got me there... What specific Scripture or story are you referring to there??? to enslave heathen tribes, and much more.  Why the change in temperment?  There was no change in temperment.  They are merely different characteristics of God and the difference in what is called the "time of law" and the "time of grace".

Sincerely, Greg H.

Greg, I think I have given you some very credible reasons for believing that Jesus did indeed exist.  Can you give me your credible reasons why you believe He didn't?  I would also like to hear your answers to all the questions I brought up in the above letter.

Take Care,

Derek