Gary Hutzel
"Visual Effects Producer" on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
March 11, 1999

Marc Wade:
Welcome to STAR TREK: CONTINUUM. We are very pleased to bring you tonight's exclusive chat with Gary Hutzel. Gary is the Visual Effects Producer on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine."

Gary, on behalf of STAR TREK: CONTINUUM, I'd like to welcome you to our chat tonight.

Gary Hutzel:
It's great to be here. Thank you for asking me.

Scott Evans asks:
How long does it take to design and produce a battle scene with the Defiant, such as in "Way of the Warrior"?

Gary Hutzel:
The battle sequences for "Way of the Warrior" were designed and completed in a twelve week period. The design work had to be completed in approximately 10 days in order to have enough time to complete the photography and compositing of the space battles. And it wasn't easy.

Stacey asks:
What kind of education did you have?

Gary Hutzel:
Actually I studied engineering at the Univ. of Michigan for two years before deciding that I didn't like Math, at which point I changed my career goals and came to California to attend Brooks Institute in Santa Barbara. Where I studied cinematography and large format photography.

Marc Wade:
If you'd like to see a LIVE picture from inside the gates at Paramount Studios, point your browser to http://www.startrek.com/lursa. This camera provides a fresh photo every two minutes. At the moment you'll be able to see us here in the chat auditorium.

Yeah For Starfleet! asks:
Did you help on Star Trek: Insurrection?

Gary Hutzel:
No, I wasn't involved in that in any way.

Jonny asks:
How do you create the calendar pictures in each year's Star Trek offerings?

Gary Hutzel:
The calendar photos are photographed as four by five inch original transparencies elements and composited electronically in Photoshop. The high resolution output is used for the calendars and in the past, have even appeared 80 feet tall on the side of buildings in Hollywood. No one was more surprised than me when it showed up on the side of a building. No one had said a word about it to me. When I photograph the miniature ships they must be shot as separate elements in order to appear as they do in the television series. A single photograph might have as many as seven separate elements. For instance, the so-called beauty pass is actually only the key light and fill light on the ship. With no additional lights. I will then photograph separately the engines, windows, nacelles, etc. This is so that each element will be correctly exposed and color-corrected for printing in the final composite.

Jaqueline asks:
Did you have to rebuild the original series sets and hire the old actors for the tribble episode?

Gary Hutzel:
For that episode only a limited number of sets were created to match the original sets from the 60s. In fact, the only area of the bridge that was built was a small section next to the turbolift. Only about 12 feet long. For the rest of the scenes involving the original cast and our cast I composited our cast into the original scenes.

One of the most interesting elements of that episode for me was examining the original camera negative from "The Trouble With Tribbles." I was amazed at the quality of all elements of the production from the sets to the hairstyling, every element of the craft beautifully executed and rendered to film superbly. No copies of that episode do justice to that original negative. It's stunning.

Mary asks:
What type of film do you use for filming effects shots?

Gary Hutzel:
We use the same 35mm film stock that the first unit uses so that the grain structure in our visual effects will match the live action from the rest of the show. It's a medium speed negative ASA 500.

Crom asks:
Do you still film models or use al CGI?

Gary Hutzel:
Until the end of last season, I had exclusively photographed models for the show. At that time I began to develop an infrastructure for doing photographic quality computer generated ships. We are at this time just reaching the fruition of that process and I hope to use those techniques for the final battle sequences which will most certainly appear in our final episodes.

D.Jerk asks:
Do you ever have to work with people or can you luxuriate in the company of computers only all day long?

Gary Hutzel:
I am very fortunate to work with a large team of very talented individuals. I am also very fortunate that they enjoy working in the company of computers. So that I don't have to.

Steve asks:
Personal preference: Macintosh or Windoze?

Gary Hutzel:
Windows NT.

202129a asks:
How often is new VFX footage shot with miniatures nowadays, as opposed to using CGI?

Gary Hutzel:
In the fifth season of DS9, miniature photography comprised approximately 85 percent of the action sequences. In the 6th season, about 70 per cent. in the 7th season, only about 10 percent.

voyager79 asks:
Was it hard creating the wormhole?

Gary Hutzel:
The wormhole was completely computer generated by Rhythm and Hues for the pilot and we have been using those elements since that time. The computer model of the wormhole has long since been lost so we survive on those existing elements.

Bob Doe asks:
How do you create the computer animated starship? Are they on a disk that can be bought? If so where can I get them?

Gary Hutzel:
Most of the virtural ships built for the series are created in a program called "LightWave." For the most part, the geometry for the models are built from scratch although occasionally elements of the ships are scanned, using a 3D laser scanner. These models are proprietary to the Star Trek series and should not be available to anyone outside of Paramount Pictures.

Shawn O'Halloran asks:
Throughout the Star Trek Series and especially in DS9, there are a lot of starships that are just reused models from other episodes and series (e.g.- Enterprise-D model being used for all Galaxy class ships.Why is that?

Gary Hutzel:
Yeah, I hate when that happens... We do a television series and although there is no shortage of talent on the show, there is a very dramatic shortage of cash and time. This often forces us to take shortcuts and compromises that we would not normally wish to do.

We do believe that in the 24th century, it is possible that starships will be mass produced and many of them may look a lot like each other.

chris asks:
are there plans for another st:tng movie

Gary Hutzel:
To my knowledge that is being discussed right now.

Trekker99 asks:
What episode was your favorite to work on?

Gary Hutzel:
Two... "Way of the Warrior" and "Trials and Tribble-ations".

"Way of the Warrior" was the most aggressive attempt at a space battle ever integrated into one of our scripts. It was the first time that such a battle was so fully written and supported by the dialogue in our script. Usually a space battle is refered to in our scripts as simply, "and then they open fire..."

"Trials and Tribble-ations" was a pleasure for all of the obvious reasons. My having watched the original series as a young teenager and enjoyed those episodes and performances. Being able to relive the making of one of those episodes through the original photography was a very special and unique experience. One I will never forget.

John De Silva asks:
What kind of background does one need to be a model builder for special fx?

Gary Hutzel:
Computers. Very few minatures are being created for present television and feature productions. By far most of the work is now being completed as virtual models.

The_Tom asks:
Rumor has the Breen reappearing on DS9 soonish. You haven't by chance done any work that might involve a certain bunch of refrigerated customers?

Gary Hutzel:
How about nowish? Watch your favorite Star Trek channel beginning the week of April 5th and get set to see the Breen in all their glory for the rest of the season.

Paul asks:
Speaking of Trials and Tribble-ations, what did you do about the lighting, camera and film speed etc? How did you integrate the ST:DS9 actors so realistically?

Gary Hutzel:
There were a number of different techniques used to integrate our characters into the original footage beginning with the film stock itself. The original series was photographed on a fine grain negative stock with an asa of 50. The stock we use on first unit now is asa 400. That means that the original series actors worked under eight times as much light as our DS9 characters. In order for our characters to be photographed correctly to match the original series we needed to use a similar slow speed stock and light our characters in much the same way as the original series did. The colors in the original series were very vivid. Even the hairstylists added colors to the hair of the principal characters. For instance, Uhura's black hair actually has very strong red highlights. And in order to bring those colors out, what is called a "rim light" was used which back-lighted the hair with a warm colored light.

STfan asks:
What's the most exciting thing about visual effects?

Gary Hutzel:
I would say that the people that you have the good fortune to meet and work with around the clock. You will find some of the hardest working people in America here in Hollywood.

recdel asks:
What has been the most challenge effect your team have worked on with DS9 ?

Gary Hutzel:
The tools that we have available to use now are so powerful that the real challenge in visual effects comes in the fine detail of integrating an effect into a live action scene. For instance, the scene earlier this season where Kira and Jake who are inhabited by Pah-Wraith are taking pot shots at each other on the Promenade. The fact that there were many angles and intercutting taking place during the sequence made matching the effect quite difficult.

DS9 Niner asks:
The space battle from "Favor the Bold/Sacrifice of Angels" was brilliant. How long did it take to produce?

Gary Hutzel:
I did not work on that episode. I work on the 'odd' episodes, that is to say, every other episode, not just the strange ones.

Obrist asks:
Hi Gary, I was wondering which 3D-program is being used to create the special effects.

Gary Hutzel:
LightWave and Maya.

Peter Molnar asks:
There have been several scenes featuring large groups of Starfleet ships. There are almost always numerous Miranda (Reliant) class ships. How come we never see any Constitution class (or Enterprise-A) ships?

Gary Hutzel:
Those ships are considered to be unbattle-worthy at this time in the "Star Trek" history. The Miranda class, however, has been refitted with a formidable weapons array. it is a terrific attack platform.

Hadrian7 asks:
Mr. Hutzel, How does one get into a career in visual effects if he/she is in college? What kind of degree do you get to become a visual effects designer?

Gary Hutzel:
My background is in photography. And even though much of visual effects is moving into a virtual environment, knowledge of photography and an understanding of the way light works is very important to the art of visual effects. I would recommend to anyone interested in this field to study photography and to spend time with their cameras. And then apply what they have learned to the virtual environment.

Jonathan Leigh asks:
Do you think that the extensive use of computer generated ships, explosions, etc... has added a lower production quality to the show?

Gary Hutzel:
It is true that quite often concepts and approaches to a given shot can be compromised by the use of computer effects. It is not necessarily true but often turns out that way. There is a tactile aspect of the craft of a battle or interaction between ships that is lost in the virtual environment and must be recaptured through complicated techniques. Sometimes our show has not fully supported that necessity. And for that reason, I still frequently photograph elements for use in the virtual environment.

Jonathan Leigh asks:
What movie or television sequence had the best visual effects you've ever seen?

Gary Hutzel:
My answer is the obvious answer: Star Wars. Star Wars was a stunning visual effects achievement for its time and has stood the test of time over the years. The sequences are as fresh and exciting as the day they were rendered to film. It would be difficult to capture anything as powerful as that again.

Picard31 asks:
How has your job evolved over the last ten years or so?

Gary Hutzel:
As the show has continued, the infrastructure which has been built to support the photography and compositing of the visual effects scenes has continued to get more sophisticated and powerful. We are now using the same tools that are used for feature compositing and have the resources to do pretty much anything we want. Twelve years ago, when I started on TNG, we were literally photographing elements for the show and miniatures in the basement of the supervisor's house. We don't do that anymore. The audiences demand for more sophisticated effects has forced us to move on.

In the past, the bulk of the work was physical in nature. Actually setting up cameras, touching up miniatures and doing lighting. Now I find a lot of my workday is spent staring at monitors and TV screens. It is not better, it's just different.

Marc Wade:
Gary, thank you very much for joining us here tonight. And thank you all very much for participating in tonight's Special Event. We're all looking forward to more adventures on this exciting season of "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"! Check Viewing Stations in STAR TREK: CONTINUUM for the day and time and channel in your area.